The Complexities of Establishing Justice in South Africa

July-August 1997

An Interview with Beyers Naude

JOHANNESBURG—[On May 9, James Skillen and Stanley Carlson-Thies interviewed Dr. Beyers Naude here in his downtown office. Naude, a pastor in the Dutch Reformed Church of South Africa, decided 30 years ago that he had to reject apartheid. His church scorned him and later the government banned him because of his anti-apartheid work. The recipient of many awards and honorary degrees around the world, Naude continues to raise critical questions for the churches and for the new South African government.]

PUBLIC JUSTICE REPORT: Dr. Naude, how do you assess the transition to full democracy in South Africa?

BEYERS NAUDE: Given the very serious injustices in our society under apartheid rule over many decades, I believe it will take 15-20 years before a reasonably just society can be built. The government, under Nelson Mandela, is seriously trying to redress the imbalances between rich and poor, urban and rural South Africans. But the challenge is immense. Just getting water to rural areas is a huge task that will take years.

PJR: Soon after apartheid ended, many of the young people grew impatient with the slowness of progress toward meeting their hopes and expectations. How are they responding now?

NAUDE: Many young black people are indeed frustrated and impatient. Government and the churches need to bring them along, to let them participate in the process of change so they can see how difficult it is to make certain changes. The African National Congress (ANC) made some promises that were unrealistic.

PJR: How do you assess the criticisms being leveled against the ANC and the Mandela government?

NAUDE: Right now the affluent are greatly concerned about the high level of crime. Increasingly, blacks will also experience its drastic impact. The government is accused of not taking crime seriously. It will have to win the confidence of the people in this regard.

Mandela truly wants a multiracial, multicultural society. That is questioned, however, by critics of his affirmative action policies, which are aimed at bringing more blacks into the new society. The government will have to prove itself more competent than it has so far in its hiring policies.

PJR: What encourages you most about developments in your country?

NAUDE: First, lam encouraged by the fact that many whites now realize that they have to become part of the new South Africa. They cannot stand aside or hide in their enclaves.

Second, I am encouraged by all the signs of vitality at the local level where new community projects are starting up and people are taking responsibility for themselves.

Third, a growing number of churches and other religious groups are coming to realize that they need to work together to help make the larger social, economic, political transition work.

PJR: How will people learn to participate in a political process and take on other responsibilities they have never had an opportunity to exercise before?

NAUDE: Every church needs to figure out how to educate its members. They must also give more attention to the theological education now given to the clergy. Much of that education is out of date for this day. The churches must also celebrate the work of the laity and encourage them rather than keep church decisions within the ecclesiastical hierarchy.

PJR: What about schools? Won't it be necessary for the different religious groups to have an influence in the schooling of their children, perhaps even by establishing independent schools?

NAUDE: It will be financially impossible for independent schools to survive or flourish, given the expense. Discussion of religious pluralism within the public sector of schooling has hardly begun.

PJR: Do you have a particular message for our readers?

NAUDE: It is vitally important for people to share their ideas and experiences across national borders. It is good that you are here in South Africa, learning from and talking with us. All of us must give more serious attention to the injustices associated with ethnicity and racism in our respective countries.

Perhaps the greatest concern that should get the attention of all of us is the growing gap between rich and poor.